Apple can't admit they're scared...
...So Cnet News decided to run an advert for them, written by known Apple fanboy Jim Dalrymple, who enjoys quoting Apple executives exclusively in his articles. This one details how Apple aren't scared of Windows 7, but are actually looking forward to it. Uh huh.
"Users are really growing tired of Windows and the headaches it brings," said Brian Croll, Apple's vice president of Mac OS X worldwide product marketing. "We've seen this with Vista, XP, and the other Windows operating systems going all the way back."
Oh really? There was me thinking an Apple vice president of marketing would say something nice about their own product. Oh wait of course not, this is Apple 90% of their marketing budget is spent bad mouthing the competition.
So has he got anything specific to say, or does he just like making vague subjective statements? No of course not.
Jim goes on to say:
The latest issue will be the amount of work that Windows XP users have to go through to upgrade to Windows 7. The need to erase the hard drive, install Windows 7, re-install applications, and update everything may be too much for some users to handle.
Factual error. You do not need to erase your hard drive to replace Windows XP with Windows 7. Seriously when was the last time you did an install of Windows? 1993? The Windows setup program moves the old Windows, Programs and user data into a folder called Windows.old. It doesn't erase them or even format the drive unless you tell it to. Oh and update everything? Yes because installing updates is so painful post-Vista, again when was the last time this guy used Windows?
If you wanna know about painful patching experience try telling your users about your $30 service packs, which are supposed to fix all the problems in the last release, but actually end up deleting all their data? Oh wait you're in marketing, sorry. Or what about the multi-hundred megabyte patches that are often pushed down, haven't you guys worked out how to just change the parts of a file instead of downloading all new ones yet? I really hope you don't plan on using 1GB mobile broadband with your Macintosh (assuming you can find one that'll work on a Macintosh) you'd use up your whole monthly allowance just keeping the thing patched.
Oh and as for installing applications, well at least if you get Windows 7 you can use your existing applications, if you move to Appleland you not only have to buy new applications, assuming there are equivalent applications for the Macintosh (there's only a tiny percentage of applications compared to Windows), but you still have to install them.
No matter how Apple try and spin it, moving to a Macintosh is more work, and way more expensive.
And at least in Windows land you have the option of using the latest operating system on your 5 year old machine, or even your 8 year old machine as long as its powerful enough. In Appleland if you have a machine that old, it doesn't even work with their new software at all, no matter how powerful it is. They force you to buy a machine because they drop support of old models so quickly. In fact some people who brought a Macintosh just three years ago can't use the latest version of Mac OS. Ouch. Another $2000 down the drain.
Apple is also betting that many XP users who will have to upgrade their computers in order to run Windows 7 will instead choose to check out a Mac. But the cost of the new computer isn't the only thing users have to look forward to; there's also the software price tag.
They're betting that most people don't upgrade and will buy a new computer? Wow talk about making a safe bet, normal computer users don't upgrade the operating system on their computer, they just buy a new one and get a new version with that. Nothing new here folks.
For many consumers, Apple feels it has that covered too, especially with iLife, its suite of applications that includes iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD. iLife is included for free with every Mac.
Amazing stuff there, how about Windows Live Essentials, its free, not free with every (insert specific machine here) just free. That means those people using Windows XP machines from 2001, well its free. You don't need to buy it like equivalent people in the Macintoshland need to do.
And before I get any Apple fanboys saying Windows doesn't have anything like Garageband. I suggest you check out Mixcraft, for those who want really advanced stuff there's always Sony Music Studio too, or for those who want something basic that pretty much does everything automatically there's always Songsmith too.
Yeah we know Apple shareholders and executives are nervous about the next few months, but you don't need to try and spin it so much. And at least Windows doesn't delete your data if you login to the guest account. :-) Ooops.
Categories: Technology Tags: apple, mac os x, macintosh
16th October 2009 12:20:30, 832 words, 1157 views
39 comments »
16th October 2009 12:20:30, 832 words, 1157 views39 comments »
39 comments
Comment from: Blad_Rnr [Visitor]
Yeah, you're right. I bought SL and it didn't erase me data. What am I doing wrong???? Please help!
16th October 2009 @ 14:16
Comment from: Chip [Visitor]
I think Apple's real fear is what they'll do when they lose their underdog status.
Based on the performance of the last few years, it looks like they'll be surpassing Microsoft in both revenue and market cap within the year.
Nobody likes to see a stronger company poke fun at a weaker one.
Good luck with that, Apple.
Based on the performance of the last few years, it looks like they'll be surpassing Microsoft in both revenue and market cap within the year.
Nobody likes to see a stronger company poke fun at a weaker one.
Good luck with that, Apple.
16th October 2009 @ 14:20
Comment from: Tom B [Visitor]
Apple has nothing to fear from Win 7; Win 7 still isn't UNIX-based, like OS X. It will continue to suffer from security and performance deficiencies. And, as it is from MSFT, the UI will continue to be quirky and inconsistent.
Having said that, MSFT fanboys, like yourself, might find 7 a worthwhile upgrade.
Having said that, MSFT fanboys, like yourself, might find 7 a worthwhile upgrade.
16th October 2009 @ 14:33
Comment from: Chuck [Visitor]
Apple makes a lot of money in other areas (iPhone/iPod/iTMS/App Store) so they don't have to rely on Mac sales alone. Most financial analysts are pointing at Apple having another blowout quarter...even in this recession! Apple doesn't have to gain 90% of the PC market to make a lot of money. 10% is just fine for them.
MSFT on the other hand just came off two quarters where revenue drastically declined. Why? Because people who want PCs aren't buying them, and if they do, they are buying cheap ones that have little profit in them for MSFT and the PC vendors. Is that success? Remember, businesses are in it to make profit.
Win7 may be a hit. But people who want Macs will still buy them, like it or not. The last three quarters have proven that. As much as you might hate Apple, their bottom line is not going to suffer even if Windows users (that 90%) all upgraded to Win7. As I pointed out, Apple can still make a lot of money selling to the remaining 10%. Therefore it will have no effect on them.
MSFT on the other hand just came off two quarters where revenue drastically declined. Why? Because people who want PCs aren't buying them, and if they do, they are buying cheap ones that have little profit in them for MSFT and the PC vendors. Is that success? Remember, businesses are in it to make profit.
Win7 may be a hit. But people who want Macs will still buy them, like it or not. The last three quarters have proven that. As much as you might hate Apple, their bottom line is not going to suffer even if Windows users (that 90%) all upgraded to Win7. As I pointed out, Apple can still make a lot of money selling to the remaining 10%. Therefore it will have no effect on them.
16th October 2009 @ 14:36
Comment from: Mike [Visitor]
Not sure how moving from to a Mac is more "work", unless you consider the time waiting to move everything from one machine to the other as Work. It took 20 minutes to set up my new Mac and configure it to see the PC on my network, and all of my file, E-mail accounts, browser bookmarks, music, pictures, movies, everything, just copied itself over.
And the easiest way to update from XP to Win7 IS to reformat your HD. Migrating from XP to Win7 will be a nightmare. The upgrade paths from XP is minimal for those users. BUt maybe all of the early reports I read should be updated, and this has been resolved by MS. If so, I'll wait to read about all the successful and problem free XP to Win7 updates everyone is doing before trying it myself.
And the easiest way to update from XP to Win7 IS to reformat your HD. Migrating from XP to Win7 will be a nightmare. The upgrade paths from XP is minimal for those users. BUt maybe all of the early reports I read should be updated, and this has been resolved by MS. If so, I'll wait to read about all the successful and problem free XP to Win7 updates everyone is doing before trying it myself.
16th October 2009 @ 14:51
Comment from: Michael [Visitor]
Here's a PM from Microsoft, on Microsoft's site saying you WILL have to backup your files and Windows 7 WILL NOT keep them. That is computer dummy talk for "reformat."
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/help/upgrading-from-windows-xp-to-windows-7
Digging around in Microsoft's site, there seems to be a no-format, custom install option.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Where-are-my-files-and-folders-after-upgrading-from-Windows-XP-or-Windows-Vista
So there's some conflicting data on that point. I imagine there are SOME scenarios where a full reformat is required (maybe using disk encryption?), so to cover ALL scenarios, Microsoft recommends backing stuff up and wiping the drive. I don't think it's a factual error to say you need to erase the hard drive when a PM from Microsoft SAYS you need to erase the hard drive, even though in some cases, it it not required.
You should have just left iLife out. Your Garage Band examples are either trial versions, not free, or nowhere near as featured. Windows Movie Maker from Live only works on Vista or 7 and doesn't burn DVDs like iDVD. You have to use a third party program to do that.
Logging into the guest account isn't how you trigger the bug. You have to forcibly power off the computer WHILE in the guest account, thereby making OS X think it hasn't cleared the guest account directory. It's not as "happens every day" as you might think.
PPC support being dropped like a hot potato doesn't apply to new users, so... you're left with complaining about patch diffs and having to buy new apps.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/help/upgrading-from-windows-xp-to-windows-7
Digging around in Microsoft's site, there seems to be a no-format, custom install option.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Where-are-my-files-and-folders-after-upgrading-from-Windows-XP-or-Windows-Vista
So there's some conflicting data on that point. I imagine there are SOME scenarios where a full reformat is required (maybe using disk encryption?), so to cover ALL scenarios, Microsoft recommends backing stuff up and wiping the drive. I don't think it's a factual error to say you need to erase the hard drive when a PM from Microsoft SAYS you need to erase the hard drive, even though in some cases, it it not required.
You should have just left iLife out. Your Garage Band examples are either trial versions, not free, or nowhere near as featured. Windows Movie Maker from Live only works on Vista or 7 and doesn't burn DVDs like iDVD. You have to use a third party program to do that.
Logging into the guest account isn't how you trigger the bug. You have to forcibly power off the computer WHILE in the guest account, thereby making OS X think it hasn't cleared the guest account directory. It's not as "happens every day" as you might think.
PPC support being dropped like a hot potato doesn't apply to new users, so... you're left with complaining about patch diffs and having to buy new apps.
16th October 2009 @ 15:55
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Micheal I've done dozens of installs for Windows 7, I think I know how the installer works. Backing up files is good practise so of course they'll recommend that. The Windows 7 installer doesn't format, or erase any data unless you tell it to by going into the advanced options.
Windows Movie Maker ships with Windows XP anyway, Windows Vista and 7 users just have a newer version. And Windows Vista and Windows 7 come with programs for creating DVDs - you don't need a 3rd party application.
Chuck, I'm not interested in how much money the companies are making. Of course Apple make shed loads of cash, Microsoft get maybe $10 or $20 off a PC sale, Apple get thousands. I'm talking about the rubbish that Apple fanboys spill out all over the place.
Windows Movie Maker ships with Windows XP anyway, Windows Vista and 7 users just have a newer version. And Windows Vista and Windows 7 come with programs for creating DVDs - you don't need a 3rd party application.
Chuck, I'm not interested in how much money the companies are making. Of course Apple make shed loads of cash, Microsoft get maybe $10 or $20 off a PC sale, Apple get thousands. I'm talking about the rubbish that Apple fanboys spill out all over the place.
16th October 2009 @ 15:59
Comment from: Don [Visitor] · http://my2cents4heday.blogspot.com
What makes Windows 2, or Windows 7 better is because of how Microsoft used OS X as its starting point - thats why the new task bar is so dock like, and Aero Peak got its inspiration from Expose, etc.!
Microsoft copies everything Apple (mostly badly). Apple does a store - Microsoft copies it; Apple creates a App Store - Microsoft copies that; Apple makes an iPod - Microsoft comes out with a Zune, etc., etc., etc.!
As tests cleray prove, the longer you use Windows 7, the slower it gets, just like all previous Window versions do!
http://www.infoworld.com/d/windows/windows-7-boots-42-slower-vista-says-study-154
Unlike Windows, which is designed for the low end, Apple's OS X is designed for the high-end, of which it controls 91% of the market and is why Apple makes the bucks - it already has more money in the bank than Microsoft!
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/07/23/apple-has-91-percent-revenue-share-of-premium-market/
Windows 7 simply addresses the faults of the past, namely Vista, which by the way got the same positive reviews; while, on the other hand, Snow Leopard addresses the future with new fangled technologies like Grand Central Dispatch and Open CL, that will enable it to do things Windows never will be able to do - at least as well, or as fast, or as stable as OS X!
Microsoft copies everything Apple (mostly badly). Apple does a store - Microsoft copies it; Apple creates a App Store - Microsoft copies that; Apple makes an iPod - Microsoft comes out with a Zune, etc., etc., etc.!
As tests cleray prove, the longer you use Windows 7, the slower it gets, just like all previous Window versions do!
http://www.infoworld.com/d/windows/windows-7-boots-42-slower-vista-says-study-154
Unlike Windows, which is designed for the low end, Apple's OS X is designed for the high-end, of which it controls 91% of the market and is why Apple makes the bucks - it already has more money in the bank than Microsoft!
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/07/23/apple-has-91-percent-revenue-share-of-premium-market/
Windows 7 simply addresses the faults of the past, namely Vista, which by the way got the same positive reviews; while, on the other hand, Snow Leopard addresses the future with new fangled technologies like Grand Central Dispatch and Open CL, that will enable it to do things Windows never will be able to do - at least as well, or as fast, or as stable as OS X!
16th October 2009 @ 16:16
Comment from: Don [Visitor]
According to the Wall Street Journal:
"The upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7 is particularly daunting because it requires first wiping the computer's hard disk to perform what's called a "custom" or "clean" install. This clears out the old operating system—as well as all of your programs, files and settings. To save personal files, XP users must back them up first, typically on an external hard disk, then transfer them back. Programs, however, will be lost altogether, so users must re-install these using their original CDs or installation files, and then also re-install all the program updates they've accumulated over the years."
Considering the Journal's importance to business, are you honestly saying that Microsoft wouldn't be screaming everywhere that the WSJ was wrong?
It would seem that either you're wrong or Microsoft's mighty publicity department is filled with idiots for not saying the WSJ was wrong. Which is it?
"The upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7 is particularly daunting because it requires first wiping the computer's hard disk to perform what's called a "custom" or "clean" install. This clears out the old operating system—as well as all of your programs, files and settings. To save personal files, XP users must back them up first, typically on an external hard disk, then transfer them back. Programs, however, will be lost altogether, so users must re-install these using their original CDs or installation files, and then also re-install all the program updates they've accumulated over the years."
Considering the Journal's importance to business, are you honestly saying that Microsoft wouldn't be screaming everywhere that the WSJ was wrong?
It would seem that either you're wrong or Microsoft's mighty publicity department is filled with idiots for not saying the WSJ was wrong. Which is it?
16th October 2009 @ 16:38
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Don, you're not actually quoting Mossberg's terrible article are you, I'm sure I already tackled his clueless ramblings a few months ago on this very topic.
A clean install since Windows Vista DOES NOT format the drive. It moves the old installation, into a folder called Windows.old where you can recover any data from your user folder.
Formatting the drive is an ADDITIONAL option the user has to undertake if they so wish to.
Here's the first couple of links off Google since you're obviously too lazy to bother to research things yourself.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=193
http://www.5starsupport.com/tutorial/vista-clean-install.htm
A clean install since Windows Vista DOES NOT format the drive. It moves the old installation, into a folder called Windows.old where you can recover any data from your user folder.
Formatting the drive is an ADDITIONAL option the user has to undertake if they so wish to.
Here's the first couple of links off Google since you're obviously too lazy to bother to research things yourself.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=193
http://www.5starsupport.com/tutorial/vista-clean-install.htm
16th October 2009 @ 16:56
Comment from: Chuck [Visitor]
@Paul,
So then why would Apple be scared??? If they are making boat loads of money, they could care less about MSFT and Win7. You are not following your argument. You spoke about Apple being scared, not Mac users who distort claims. Please explain.
So then why would Apple be scared??? If they are making boat loads of money, they could care less about MSFT and Win7. You are not following your argument. You spoke about Apple being scared, not Mac users who distort claims. Please explain.
16th October 2009 @ 17:21
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Chuck for a start its "couldn't care less" could care less means the exact opposite of how you intend, look at the words. Secondly Microsoft's revenue stream is much broader than Apple's which depends on one or two markets. Finally, the nonsense Apple could get away with over the last 2 or 3 years is about to come to an end, which is what I'm getting at, ie with the Windows 7 launch, and that will impact their sales.
16th October 2009 @ 17:24
Comment from: Terry [Visitor]
Who's the fan boy? Seems like we have a Windows fan boy writing this article!
16th October 2009 @ 17:28
Comment from: Chuck [Visitor]
@Paul,
Do you really treat all the visitors to your blog, when they present links to MSFT's own sites and their own experience, as "lazy" and "Idiots" and "Apple fanboys" and "clueless" just because they disagree? Could it be you MIGHT be wrong on SOME points? My gosh, I guess MSFT's wrong about their own OS!
No disrespect, but you really come across as arrogant and snobbish. Maybe that's how you operate, but if you really want people to read your thoughts you might want to thank them for coming and not resort to name calling. You can't possibly be right all the time. No one ever is.
-Cheers.
Do you really treat all the visitors to your blog, when they present links to MSFT's own sites and their own experience, as "lazy" and "Idiots" and "Apple fanboys" and "clueless" just because they disagree? Could it be you MIGHT be wrong on SOME points? My gosh, I guess MSFT's wrong about their own OS!
No disrespect, but you really come across as arrogant and snobbish. Maybe that's how you operate, but if you really want people to read your thoughts you might want to thank them for coming and not resort to name calling. You can't possibly be right all the time. No one ever is.
-Cheers.
16th October 2009 @ 17:30
Comment from: chuck [Visitor]
@Paul
No it's not. You missed my point. If MSFT even takes 90% of the market with Windows 7, how in the world does that affect Apple? They are still going to make lots of money and sell lots of Macs to the other 10%! Win7 doesn't matter to them.
If you hate Apple, just say so. But they are not going away and they don't care about Win7.
But thanks for correcting my English. I don't know what I would do without you!
No it's not. You missed my point. If MSFT even takes 90% of the market with Windows 7, how in the world does that affect Apple? They are still going to make lots of money and sell lots of Macs to the other 10%! Win7 doesn't matter to them.
If you hate Apple, just say so. But they are not going away and they don't care about Win7.
But thanks for correcting my English. I don't know what I would do without you!
16th October 2009 @ 17:34
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Chuck and Don, if Microsoft is supplying wrong information about how the installer of their operating system works. Then it is wrong, obviously I'm not trying to defend that because I'm saying that it is wrong. The trouble is articles on Microsoft's support website are largely aimed at computer illiterates and so they don't always go into as much technical details as articles on TechNet or MSDN.
No I'm not wrong on the installer point. I know how the installer works; I've done dozens of installs this year with different builds of Windows 7, and even more installs with the Windows Vista installer while it was in development. I know how it behaves thank you, if you want me to create a video of it actually doing this I'd be happy to do so, but as its already well documented across the internet (check the links I previously posted) I fail to see what good it will do.
The fact you carry on about this as if you can prove me wrong, despite me having 3rd party information that agrees with me, and my own personal experience of actually using the installer is telling.
And Chuck again, a company cares about sales figures; obviously with the Macintosh at 3% globally it's not going to do a lot. But the momentum will swing to Windows in the last quarter with the release of Windows 7 and Apple are trying to spin this, which obviously shows they do care about Windows, after all Apple over the last 15 years has spent most of its time talking about Windows. I think they care a great deal about it.
No I'm not wrong on the installer point. I know how the installer works; I've done dozens of installs this year with different builds of Windows 7, and even more installs with the Windows Vista installer while it was in development. I know how it behaves thank you, if you want me to create a video of it actually doing this I'd be happy to do so, but as its already well documented across the internet (check the links I previously posted) I fail to see what good it will do.
The fact you carry on about this as if you can prove me wrong, despite me having 3rd party information that agrees with me, and my own personal experience of actually using the installer is telling.
And Chuck again, a company cares about sales figures; obviously with the Macintosh at 3% globally it's not going to do a lot. But the momentum will swing to Windows in the last quarter with the release of Windows 7 and Apple are trying to spin this, which obviously shows they do care about Windows, after all Apple over the last 15 years has spent most of its time talking about Windows. I think they care a great deal about it.
16th October 2009 @ 17:39
Comment from: KenC [Visitor]
Wow, for a guy harping on getting the facts right, you get so many wrong. Ironic? No, I think it was purposeful.
16th October 2009 @ 18:59
Comment from: Shane Laws [Visitor]
What is with grammar on the Internet. Apple is a single entity not plural. You wrote "Apple aren't scared of Windows 7." Apple isn't scared of Windows 7. I see a lot of this. It drives me nuts. Straighten up and fly right!
Also, if you switch to a Mac you don't have to buy all new programs. Install the free Boot Camp and a copy of Windows and all of your existing Windows programs will run on a Mac. but only if they must. Mac programs are typically more enjoyable to use.
Also, if you switch to a Mac you don't have to buy all new programs. Install the free Boot Camp and a copy of Windows and all of your existing Windows programs will run on a Mac. but only if they must. Mac programs are typically more enjoyable to use.
16th October 2009 @ 19:15
Comment from: Michael [Visitor]
Advanced options... you mean like custom install... how XP users are supposed to upgrade?
I'm just saying Microsoft seems to be stressing that backing up is mandatory, and not in a suggestive way as with a Vista install. If the PR flacks at Microsoft say that you need, in no uncertain terms, to back up, then there's no misrepresentation of an Apple PR guy repeating the same thing.
Fair enough with DVDs in Vista and 7, I didn't look into that, mainly because in XP (which is what I thought the discussion was about... not having to pay to get features), you can't make DVDs without third party software.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/create/savetodvd.mspx
So to those people using XP, that's "not free" and they have "to buy it like equivalent people in the Macintoshland need to do".
I'm just saying Microsoft seems to be stressing that backing up is mandatory, and not in a suggestive way as with a Vista install. If the PR flacks at Microsoft say that you need, in no uncertain terms, to back up, then there's no misrepresentation of an Apple PR guy repeating the same thing.
Fair enough with DVDs in Vista and 7, I didn't look into that, mainly because in XP (which is what I thought the discussion was about... not having to pay to get features), you can't make DVDs without third party software.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/moviemaker/create/savetodvd.mspx
So to those people using XP, that's "not free" and they have "to buy it like equivalent people in the Macintoshland need to do".
16th October 2009 @ 19:38
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Advanced options as in using the partitioning tools Micheal. Again not how the custom install behaves by default.
16th October 2009 @ 19:48
Comment from: Steve [Visitor]
@Paul, you seem to be the one who's most bothered by the Win7 release. Also, I'm not sure why you're getting all over Jim Dalrymple's case. From what I see, he's just covering Apple's position on this. I don't see any far fetched claims. If Apple is going to advertise the fact that Microsoft has complex instructions for upgrading who's fault is that? Is it Jim's fault for covering this topic? Is it Apple's fault for capitalizing on Microsoft's own instructions?
Anyway, the premise of your post is a moot point. Historically, Apple's sales have only increased with each Windows release. Likewise, the notion that Apple is "scared" is just silly and baseless. Didn't people say the same when Vista was released? Yay, Microsoft finally sort of almost catches up feature wise with Macs... To bad the OS only turned out to be a gift for Apple by sending even more customers their way.
A couple other points to address here. Yes, the "guest account" data issue is a bug, but let's be honest about this. First, in practice, nobody uses that feature. Second, for those who do, the bug required an extremely rare combination of circumstances. If you'll notice, various web sites were unable to duplicate the problem. I've tested it myself and also couldn't duplicate this issue. So, let's not pretend the issue is on the scale you're trying to make it out to be. Also, if you want to go there, at least Apple isn't losing it's customer data like the Danger incident. Ooops.. :)
Also, if you're comparing Windows Live Essentials to iLife, then let's just admit you haven't used both. They're not in the same league.
As for service pack comments, the upgrade to Snow Leopard and to Windows 7 are on the same order of magnitude. Likewise, if you want to make comments about Apple charging $30 for this "service pack", then Microsoft is seriously over charging for theirs.
In any case, I don't see any Mac users getting all up tight about this release. Why are you?
Anyway, the premise of your post is a moot point. Historically, Apple's sales have only increased with each Windows release. Likewise, the notion that Apple is "scared" is just silly and baseless. Didn't people say the same when Vista was released? Yay, Microsoft finally sort of almost catches up feature wise with Macs... To bad the OS only turned out to be a gift for Apple by sending even more customers their way.
A couple other points to address here. Yes, the "guest account" data issue is a bug, but let's be honest about this. First, in practice, nobody uses that feature. Second, for those who do, the bug required an extremely rare combination of circumstances. If you'll notice, various web sites were unable to duplicate the problem. I've tested it myself and also couldn't duplicate this issue. So, let's not pretend the issue is on the scale you're trying to make it out to be. Also, if you want to go there, at least Apple isn't losing it's customer data like the Danger incident. Ooops.. :)
Also, if you're comparing Windows Live Essentials to iLife, then let's just admit you haven't used both. They're not in the same league.
As for service pack comments, the upgrade to Snow Leopard and to Windows 7 are on the same order of magnitude. Likewise, if you want to make comments about Apple charging $30 for this "service pack", then Microsoft is seriously over charging for theirs.
In any case, I don't see any Mac users getting all up tight about this release. Why are you?
16th October 2009 @ 20:16
Comment from: DaveD [Visitor]
Mac switcher here. Switched in early 2004 and won't go back. I still use XP at work and will probably have it upgraded to 7 in the next few months once our client support okays it.
Also, I'm an ex-MCSD. Used to use VB, DCOM, ASP, everything through .NET 2.0 and VS 2005 on a daily basis. Doing SAP programming now.
First thing Paul - backups. It's a silly argument on both sides. Anyone who would do a OS major release upgrade without a backup is foolish. (Same goes for a minor relase like SL.)
But here's a couple of honest questions Paul - all I have is my memory of doing WIndows upgrades from nearly a decade ago.
(1) Let's say you own a single partition 500 gig HDD running XP that is 80% used. Can you still upgrade without an external backup? What's the threshold?
(2) If you need to backup things externally, what happens after the backup? Does Windows 7 still use a registry - meaning, is there any other alternatives to re-installing apps?
(3) Can I make a bootable external backup of a Windows HDD yet?
Please, no baiting here. Honest questions, okay?
Our engineering depart is using 7 alsmot exclusively - 64 bit. It looks like an extremely great upgrade. Everyone I've talked to raves about it - and slams Vista. I think MS has a winner on it's hands.
Paul, one last item:
http://daringfireball.net/2009/10/microsofts_competition_for_windows_7
Yes, John Gruber is your typical Apple fanatic. But he makes a lot of sense here too. Notice one thing though - he writes in a much less inflammatory way than you did. (At least how you did here. Right now I'm not sure if I wish to read any other posts.)
Peace!
Also, I'm an ex-MCSD. Used to use VB, DCOM, ASP, everything through .NET 2.0 and VS 2005 on a daily basis. Doing SAP programming now.
First thing Paul - backups. It's a silly argument on both sides. Anyone who would do a OS major release upgrade without a backup is foolish. (Same goes for a minor relase like SL.)
But here's a couple of honest questions Paul - all I have is my memory of doing WIndows upgrades from nearly a decade ago.
(1) Let's say you own a single partition 500 gig HDD running XP that is 80% used. Can you still upgrade without an external backup? What's the threshold?
(2) If you need to backup things externally, what happens after the backup? Does Windows 7 still use a registry - meaning, is there any other alternatives to re-installing apps?
(3) Can I make a bootable external backup of a Windows HDD yet?
Please, no baiting here. Honest questions, okay?
Our engineering depart is using 7 alsmot exclusively - 64 bit. It looks like an extremely great upgrade. Everyone I've talked to raves about it - and slams Vista. I think MS has a winner on it's hands.
Paul, one last item:
http://daringfireball.net/2009/10/microsofts_competition_for_windows_7
Yes, John Gruber is your typical Apple fanatic. But he makes a lot of sense here too. Notice one thing though - he writes in a much less inflammatory way than you did. (At least how you did here. Right now I'm not sure if I wish to read any other posts.)
Peace!
16th October 2009 @ 20:27
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Hello DaveD.
1) You can upgrade with 15GB of free space with Windows Vista. With Windows 7 you'll need to clean install (as there is no upgrade path from Windows XP), which I suspect will want 15GB still, although I don't have the numbers infront of me.
2) Windows 7 still has a registry. Applications will need to be reinstalled if clean installing, although they'll be present in Windows.old\Program Files so actually for a lot of applications these days you can just copy them over to Program Files as they'll set the registry up on their first run if they themselves even use it.
3) You can make a bootable VHD, but not a bootable image directly. The Windows Vista/7 image backups are compressed and not directly bootable, instead you'd restore them using the repair tools when booting the Windows disc.
1) You can upgrade with 15GB of free space with Windows Vista. With Windows 7 you'll need to clean install (as there is no upgrade path from Windows XP), which I suspect will want 15GB still, although I don't have the numbers infront of me.
2) Windows 7 still has a registry. Applications will need to be reinstalled if clean installing, although they'll be present in Windows.old\Program Files so actually for a lot of applications these days you can just copy them over to Program Files as they'll set the registry up on their first run if they themselves even use it.
3) You can make a bootable VHD, but not a bootable image directly. The Windows Vista/7 image backups are compressed and not directly bootable, instead you'd restore them using the repair tools when booting the Windows disc.
16th October 2009 @ 20:36
Comment from: Mark Sowul [Visitor]
Jeez, the Mac zealots must have some kind of weird radar. Shane - really, is that the best you can do? Turns out you're the ignorant one; in British English collective nouns (e.g. companies) are plural.
As for the upgrade-from-XP "issue" I always wonder why no one points out that, since you can install Vista without a product key, you could, in theory, upgrade from XP to Vista (without buying it) and then step up from there to Windows 7. But there's little reason not to use x64 these days, and you can't upgrade from x86 to x64.
And seriously? It'd be less work to move to a Mac? I don't see how installing an OS to which you can't directly upgrade can be more work than getting a completely different and unrelated OS to which you can't even indirectly upgrade (i.e. at least in the former case there's a migration wizard).
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant
As for the upgrade-from-XP "issue" I always wonder why no one points out that, since you can install Vista without a product key, you could, in theory, upgrade from XP to Vista (without buying it) and then step up from there to Windows 7. But there's little reason not to use x64 these days, and you can't upgrade from x86 to x64.
And seriously? It'd be less work to move to a Mac? I don't see how installing an OS to which you can't directly upgrade can be more work than getting a completely different and unrelated OS to which you can't even indirectly upgrade (i.e. at least in the former case there's a migration wizard).
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant
16th October 2009 @ 22:28
Comment from: Peter [Visitor]
A couple of things I'm curious about...
You mention that you can upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7--your old Windows install will be placed in a directory called Windows.old.
Okay. Fair enough. But what happens if I don't have room for two Windows installations? Usually, I don't have to worry about this on the Mac, because I can do an "in place" upgrade which will upgrade the system but leave my user files alone. So as long as I have room for the "difference", I'm good.
Secondly, assuming that I have the room for two Windows installations, is there a convenient way to get my data out of Windows.old and into Windows 7?
You mention that you can upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7--your old Windows install will be placed in a directory called Windows.old.
Okay. Fair enough. But what happens if I don't have room for two Windows installations? Usually, I don't have to worry about this on the Mac, because I can do an "in place" upgrade which will upgrade the system but leave my user files alone. So as long as I have room for the "difference", I'm good.
Secondly, assuming that I have the room for two Windows installations, is there a convenient way to get my data out of Windows.old and into Windows 7?
17th October 2009 @ 00:46
Comment from: AdamC [Visitor]
Yes Apple is very afraid of W7, it is only a software but Apple make the whole widget and besides they make very desirable products so much so they become objects of want and not need.
Let's come back to this subject in a year's time and see who is right and who is wrong and for Apple the sky is the limit because there are 90% of computers users not using the Mac yet.
Btw most of the windows OS(s) are in the enterprise.
Let's come back to this subject in a year's time and see who is right and who is wrong and for Apple the sky is the limit because there are 90% of computers users not using the Mac yet.
Btw most of the windows OS(s) are in the enterprise.
17th October 2009 @ 05:44
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Peter, if you've got 15GB free you can install. If you don't have 15GB free you'll need to free up some space. Upgrade installations are only supported from Windows Vista, and will still require some free space. The point is moot however as most people will not be replacing Windows XP with Windows 7 on thier machines.
Yes you can just copy whatever you like out of Windows.old its just a folder.
Yes you can just copy whatever you like out of Windows.old its just a folder.
17th October 2009 @ 10:39
Comment from: lrd [Visitor]
How soon we all forgot. All the people singing the praises of Windows 7 now, were the same ones singing the praises of Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows XP and Windows Vista.
Windows will never be as the Mac operating no matter how far back or forward we go. Dragging along an inferior leagacy system basically assures that's the case.
What we're seeing here is an industry who's growth depends on this inferior product. And like it or not this inferior product drives 90% of the PC industry. Everyone's touting it not because it's really good; but because they're part of that 90% and want to keep their jobs- it's that simply.
Windows will never be as the Mac operating no matter how far back or forward we go. Dragging along an inferior leagacy system basically assures that's the case.
What we're seeing here is an industry who's growth depends on this inferior product. And like it or not this inferior product drives 90% of the PC industry. Everyone's touting it not because it's really good; but because they're part of that 90% and want to keep their jobs- it's that simply.
17th October 2009 @ 15:49
Comment from: James Katt [Visitor] · http://definitivemind.com
Apple LOVES Windows 7.
ONE: It is in Apple's best interest to have competition.
TWO: It is also in Apple's best interest to be in the minority unless people vote with their pockets - such as with the iPod and iPhone.
These two factors give Apple a HUGE competitive edge.
Apple is a more profitable company than Microsoft despite having only 3-8 percent of the personal computing market. Apple is all about profit - not marketshare.
Apple creates products that people LUST after. They are COOL. They are UNIQUE. Apple gathers fans that a RELIGIOUSLY in love with their Apple product.
Apple cannot create this mystique, this lust, if it did not have competition to play off. Who would be the PC Guy if Windows did not exist?
I got Windows 7 in September since the Corporate version was released way before the consumer version. The one thing that was nicer is that Windows 7 will try to retrieve drivers off the net for hardware that you connect to it. It doesn't work all the time since it had difficulty with older printers. The Aero interface is OK. But under the hood, it is still Vista/Windows. Older programs still have the Windows XP GUI, not the Aero one.
Windows 7 is an improvement on Vista, though not by much.
ONE: It is in Apple's best interest to have competition.
TWO: It is also in Apple's best interest to be in the minority unless people vote with their pockets - such as with the iPod and iPhone.
These two factors give Apple a HUGE competitive edge.
Apple is a more profitable company than Microsoft despite having only 3-8 percent of the personal computing market. Apple is all about profit - not marketshare.
Apple creates products that people LUST after. They are COOL. They are UNIQUE. Apple gathers fans that a RELIGIOUSLY in love with their Apple product.
Apple cannot create this mystique, this lust, if it did not have competition to play off. Who would be the PC Guy if Windows did not exist?
I got Windows 7 in September since the Corporate version was released way before the consumer version. The one thing that was nicer is that Windows 7 will try to retrieve drivers off the net for hardware that you connect to it. It doesn't work all the time since it had difficulty with older printers. The Aero interface is OK. But under the hood, it is still Vista/Windows. Older programs still have the Windows XP GUI, not the Aero one.
Windows 7 is an improvement on Vista, though not by much.
17th October 2009 @ 16:59
Comment from: Louis Wheeler [Visitor]
I can't imagine Apple being scared of System Seven. Macintosh users will be uninterested in it. Apple won't lose market share from the upgrade. All that can be said is that there will be fewer desertions from Vista.
Microsoft's big problem will be in getting the Windows 2000 and XP users to move. The former, because they will need new hardware. The latter because they comprise 79% of computer users. Parts of those groups might be ready to "walk on the wild side" and join Apple.
Like anything else, the decision will be emotional. What is it, again, that System Seven does better than the Mac? Oh, yes -- Games. Whoop ti do.
Large segments of the Enterprise market won't be changing to System Seven until the old computer hardware breaks down enough to need a new computer, so that could take years. This is especially so, of old computers which act as cash registers, displays and the front ends for mainframes or the web. There are a bunch of those around the world.
I'm holding off judgement on System Seven for a few months. It is unlikely to be as good as the pundits make out. We never really can judge these matters until the fools get their hand on an upgrade. It is amazing what hidden problems they can discover.
I don't see System Seven fundamentally changing anything. It is marginally more secure than XP and Vista, but not enough to end the malware problems on the web -- billions of dollars will still be lost every year.
The OS that Microsoft should be afraid of is Google's Chrome OS. It should be much more secure than System Seven because it is Linux. If you add in VMware you can run all your Windows apps. Who needs Microsoft then?
More important, the Chrome OS will be free. Microsoft has a tough time dealing with free software. There could be a big move from XP to Chrome. But, it's too soon to know that.
Microsoft's big problem will be in getting the Windows 2000 and XP users to move. The former, because they will need new hardware. The latter because they comprise 79% of computer users. Parts of those groups might be ready to "walk on the wild side" and join Apple.
Like anything else, the decision will be emotional. What is it, again, that System Seven does better than the Mac? Oh, yes -- Games. Whoop ti do.
Large segments of the Enterprise market won't be changing to System Seven until the old computer hardware breaks down enough to need a new computer, so that could take years. This is especially so, of old computers which act as cash registers, displays and the front ends for mainframes or the web. There are a bunch of those around the world.
I'm holding off judgement on System Seven for a few months. It is unlikely to be as good as the pundits make out. We never really can judge these matters until the fools get their hand on an upgrade. It is amazing what hidden problems they can discover.
I don't see System Seven fundamentally changing anything. It is marginally more secure than XP and Vista, but not enough to end the malware problems on the web -- billions of dollars will still be lost every year.
The OS that Microsoft should be afraid of is Google's Chrome OS. It should be much more secure than System Seven because it is Linux. If you add in VMware you can run all your Windows apps. Who needs Microsoft then?
More important, the Chrome OS will be free. Microsoft has a tough time dealing with free software. There could be a big move from XP to Chrome. But, it's too soon to know that.
17th October 2009 @ 23:55
Comment from: ecrah [Visitor]
Steve the [Visitor] made the most and strongest arguments, and exposed not just your bias and hypocrisy but also your lack of intelligence.
And it shows - in the way you seem to have wriggled your way around and avoided replying to his post.
You my friend are what we call, A Loooooooser!
And it shows - in the way you seem to have wriggled your way around and avoided replying to his post.
You my friend are what we call, A Loooooooser!
18th October 2009 @ 03:12
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Louis you can't even bring yourself to say Windows 7 can you? It's not called System Seven like you repeatedly proclaim, talk about scared.
18th October 2009 @ 10:31
Comment from: Shane [Visitor]
@ Mark Sowul
If Paul Smith is British consider me chastened.
If Paul Smith is British consider me chastened.
18th October 2009 @ 13:52
Comment from: Louis Wheeler [Visitor]
If Steve Ballmer calls it System Seven, so can I.
What should I call it -- Windows 6.2? That is what they call it internally at Microsoft.
What have I to be afraid of? I am just telling the truth as i see it. Did you have a real comment in there, Paul?
What should I call it -- Windows 6.2? That is what they call it internally at Microsoft.
What have I to be afraid of? I am just telling the truth as i see it. Did you have a real comment in there, Paul?
18th October 2009 @ 15:39
Comment from: dig [Visitor]
hilarious, if you think apple is scared you should lay off the meds for a couple of days. clearly it irks you that microsoft can't seem to do anything right these days but that's no reason to to belittle a company that really is executing on all levels.
18th October 2009 @ 16:13
Comment from: Paul Smith = Fail [Visitor]
@15:59 - Paul Smith: "Please check your facts before posting, it doesn't hard."
@17:24 - Paul Smith: "Chuck for a start its "couldn't care less" could care less means the exact opposite of how you intend, look at the words."
Paul, it's funny that you're so condescending about everything everyone had to say and then you corrected someone else's grammar after messing up your own.
I agree with everyone else here who wrote that maybe you shouldn't be such a jerk to the people who took their time to read your blog.
@17:24 - Paul Smith: "Chuck for a start its "couldn't care less" could care less means the exact opposite of how you intend, look at the words."
Paul, it's funny that you're so condescending about everything everyone had to say and then you corrected someone else's grammar after messing up your own.
I agree with everyone else here who wrote that maybe you shouldn't be such a jerk to the people who took their time to read your blog.
18th October 2009 @ 17:28
Comment from: Chuck [Visitor]
Looks like Apple just posted record revenue, profits and Mac sales...in a freaking recession/depression! Just wanted to burst your balloon with some cold, hard facts. Three million Macs in one quarter at 36% margins!!! Bwaaahaaahaaa!!! (BTW: what kind of margins does Dell and HP have on their plastic crap boxes? Just asking.)
Good luck with that Windows 7 party. I think you'll need a good, stiff drink or two. Cheers!
Good luck with that Windows 7 party. I think you'll need a good, stiff drink or two. Cheers!
19th October 2009 @ 21:26
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Speaking of sales Acer is up 26%, that's more than Apple which still holds less than 4% marketshare.
19th October 2009 @ 22:01
Comment from: Wheelworks [Visitor]
You know what's funnier than apple fanboys? Windows fanboys =0P
The funny thing is, the only reason windows fanboys claim to love windows the best is that they can't stand people loving an OS as is in the case of mac users.
The funny thing is, the only reason windows fanboys claim to love windows the best is that they can't stand people loving an OS as is in the case of mac users.
23rd October 2009 @ 15:31
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