Tags: civil liberties
In the wake of the Counter-Terrorism Bill
Well it's been an interesting few days in the aftermath of the Counter-Terrorism Bill.
Here's the list of the Labour MPs who voted against the government; Diane Abbott, Richard Burden, Katy Clark, Harry Cohen, Frank Cook, Jeremy Corbyn, Jim Cousins, Andrew Dismore, Frank Dobson, David Drew, Paul Farrelly, Mark Fisher, Paul Flynn, Neil Gerrard, Ian Gibson, Roger Godsiff, John Grogan, Dai Havard, Kate Hoey, Kelvin Hopkins, Glenda Jackson, Lynne Jones, Peter Kilfoyle, Andrew Mackinlay, Bob Marshall-Andrews, John McDonnell Michael Meacher, Julie Morgan, Chris Mullin, Doug Naysmith, Gordon Prentice, Linda Riordan, Alan Simpson, Emily Thornberry, Bob Wareing, David Winnick and Mike Wood. Thanks again.
Jon Trickett, the parliamentary spokesman for Compass has been forced to stand down after Compass MPs caved into the government's demands. Compass members are undoubtedly more than a little annoyed at being betrayed by the likes of Trickett and Cruddas.
David Davis stunned everyone by not only resigning as the Shadow Home Secretary but also resigning his seat (Haltemprice and Howden), which has triggered a by-election. On which he will fight on a platform of civil liberties to try and bring about more public attention on the matter.
He's obviously come under assault from both Labour and Tory members, but its his decision in the end and it will bring the issue of our declining civil liberties into focus - at least for a while. Which is required. The Liberal Democrats have said they won't be standing against him.
It gets tricky for the Labour Party, how can we put up a candidate that supports 42-days detention? The political damage of that would be immense, Kevin Davis rightly points out that if we don't it'll look like we're running away, but that's better than the alternative.
According to Grimmer Up North though the Labour candidate there is against 42-days detention. So if he did decide to stand he would have the task of trying to break out of the single issue by-election, probably impossible.
However it has also just emerged that some Labour MPs have come out in support of David Davis. It'll be very interesting to see what sort of reaction this will provoke from the Labour Party machinery.
Counter-Terrorism Bill passes by nine votes
The government won by nine votes. 37 Labour MPs rebelled (thanks comrades), I'm sure many Labour Party members will be keen to see which lefties caved and voted with the government on this.
Hopefully the Lords will chuck it out - I never thought I'd hear myself say that.
John McDonnell:
Any attempt to present this as some sort of victory for the Government will ring absolutely hollow. There will be widespread consternation among our supporters in the country seeing a Labour Government prepared to use every tactic available in its determination to crush essential civil liberties, which have been won by the Labour movement over generations.
This is no way to run a Government. Securing votes by threats, bribes and personal pleading demeans the role of the Prime Minister. Backbench Labour MPs from all sides of the Party have looked on in disbelief at how the Government has mishandled this issue.
Now some trade unions are talking about cutting funding to Labour MPs who vote against trade union policies, hopefully some Labour Party members will start thinking about deselecting their MPs who are caving into the leadership's demands. We need more reliable socialists in the Parliamentary Labour Party, who don't throw their principles out the window the second Gordon phones them up.
42-day detention and our civil liberties in general
I originally wasn't going to blog about this, my views are already pretty well known (major assault on our civil liberties over the last decade), but something just forced my hand.
It was a blogger on LabourHome.
I genuinely thought before now the people who supported the government on this issue in this party just didn't care one way or the other, and so they'd go with their party "loyalties". I never expected anything this extreme.
He starts off praising Brown's performance on PMQ's today, and saying Cameron looked weak... Sigh, who cares. It's the policies that count, not how well people can show off on TV.
Cameron looked weak harking on about civil liberties; well guess what - we are at war with radical islamic extremism
At war with radical Islamic extremism? I suppose radical Islam and Islamic extremism are separate and this is some sort of new strain which combines them both and is even more deadly.
Whatever... I'm not fighting in this war, I've got other extremists to deal with, ones who could actually destroy our civil liberties, and give the police the power to detain people forever (read: make people dissapear). Yes, that's what he said:
if the police need more time to question; then they should be granted all the time in the world.
Over my cold dead body. 28 days is bad enough. Another two weeks is insane, people shouldn't be detained for more than 24 hours, maybe the courts should be allowed to extend that in serious cases, maybe for a week but what we're talking about now is completely off the scale.
Presumed terrorists should be afforded no benefit of the doubt
I remember a time when people were innocent until proven guilty.
This debate about 6 weeks is laughable. Imagine if the enemy facing their trial for the liquid explosives managed to go through with the plan - we would not be having this conversation.
Of course we would be having this conversation, unless you're so extreme you think they're going to kill all 60 million of us.
I thought this would settle down over time from the initial "9/11" attacks which sparked all of this, but I'm getting increasing concerned by things like this.
Just a few months ago we saw some teenager arrested for carrying a sign saying that Scientology is a cult.
Yes that's right, he was arrested for carrying a sign with words on it.
Scientology is a CULT. I'm right with you dude.
We increasingly need a written constitution guaranteeing our right to freedom of speech, too many times people are forced to be quiet due to laws against "offending" (now there's a law open to interpretation) people, laws against upsetting these people, or those people. What happened to a good, open and honest conversation? Our libel laws also need to be balanced so the burden of evidence is upon the claimant.
Brown's been trying to buy off the Labour backbenchers from voting against the government on the Counter-Terrorism Bill. It looks like it is working, I've heard the Compass group of MPs have caved in. John McDonnell has now boycotted the Compass conference in response (good on you John).
Hopefully this bill will be defeated. Those lefty MPs who vote with the government on this should be hanging their heads in shame.








15th June 2008 01:39:26, 363 words, 713 views