Religious fundamentalists and anti-homosexuality nonsense

So the religious lunatics are at it again. The rise of fundamentalism in the United States is a real problem and needs to be stamped out.

This time Reverend Ken Hutcherson and his (to quote the Telegraph) "evangelical megachurch has vowed to take over Microsoft by packing it with new shareholders who will vote against the company's policy of championing gay rights."

Microsoft is fairly well known in the United States for supporting a solid policy of employee diversity. There's a group within Microsoft called the Gay and Lesbian Employees At Microsoft (GLEAM). A lot of technology companies are typically quite liberal (well apart from Apple and Adobe, who unlike most others give more money to the Republican Party) when it comes to matters such as this, and I'm surprised haven't yet been the target of more religious nonsense.

This guy is asking millions of evangelical Christians, Jews and the like to buy up Microsoft stock so they can vote against these policies within the company.

Here's a few of the things this guy has had to say:

"I consider myself a warrior for Christ. Microsoft don't scare me. I got God with me."

"I told them that you need to work with me or we will put a firestorm on you like you have never seen in you life because I am your worst nightmare. I am a black man with a righteous cause with a whole host of powerful white people behind me."

"Microsoft stepped out of their four walls into my world so that gives me the right to step out of my world into their world."

"They tried to turn their policy into state policy, making their policy something I had to submit to. And my playbook tells me you don't submit to sin."

Now I know most people in the UK would dismiss the guy as a nutcase, and rightfully so, but increasingly in the United States these people are becoming ever more powerful and they influence millions of people.

Never in the UK have I met somebody who told me that being gay is a life choice, yet on my forums, the majority of members of which are American it is a frequent area of argument. Of course there is zero evidence to support these claims, but when you're dealing with people who place faith above hard scientific facts nine times out of ten you're wasting your time discussing it. If their pastor or priest has told them it is a life choice and a sin, it is probably too late. That method of thought - or lack of thought must be stopped.

This is why faith must be attacked by reason, the scientific method is the most powerful invention we have ever made and we should use it to investigate everything. Religion has been getting a free ride for far too long, and people in the United States must openly challenge it and reverse the damage that has already been done. A secular country where God is mentioned in the pledge of allegiance and mentioned in the country's motto has something seriously wrong with it.

In the UK too fundamentalism is on the rise, creationism is being actively taught in some schools, children can be divided up into faith based schools, some Jewish communities and of course Northern Ireland spring to mind which creates segregation which can well follow them throughout their lives.

Imagine a world without religion

It is time people make a stand against religion, although the majority of religious people are perfectly decent, by their support of putting faith above reason they allow generations of people to be indoctrinated into something that simply has no basis in the real world.

All too often we see fundamentalists causing the spread of HIV by telling people that condoms are evil, we see deadly diseases break out because parents refuse to vaccinate their children, this has cropped up many times throughout Africa killing thousands of people, all because some church said the vaccines gave people aids. Then we have people blowing themselves up because they have been indoctrinated into believing there is an afterlife.

It needs to be stamped out, I believe religion should be a strictly private matter, the intervention of religious ideology in society should be stopped, it is dangerous and regressive. Things look far too similar to the spread of Christianity in the Roman Empire, where science was suppressed the Great Library burned and civilisation in Europe collapsed into a thousand years of religious darkness. Never again.

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21 comments

Comment from: Lee [Visitor] · http://www.labour4yeovil.org.uk
This is certainly a tough one. A very divisive issue. There is nothing wrong with personal faith and in having a personal relationship with God. This is what was being preached as early as the 1500s by the likes of Martin Luther.

While that may seem irrelevant there is a direct link between events in the 1500s and today's position of the United States. This radical religious zeal has always been present - let us acknowledge that a majority of those emigrating to the new world were radical puritans who failed to find an adequate religious settlement under Elizabeth I, then James I and then Charles I.

For an American this kind of radicalism is an integral part of every day life. And always has been. That doesn't mean it is acceptable, but for a country with traditionally greater amounts of toleration (such as the UK) it appears foreign and therefore ultimately wrong.

I would argue that religion has no place in government and that government is supposed to be secular. It isn't secular and never has been. And it still isn't in the UK. Bishops still sit in the House of Lords. Our Head of State is the 'Defender of the Faith' which was a title bestowed upon the monarch by the Pope.

I think government and religion when mixed have disastrous consequences, as you rightly mentioned and cited Africa as a specific modern day example.

How do you propose making a stand against religion? Do you wish for us to burn churches to the ground or attack religious iconoclasm? Suffice to say, there is no conceivable way to make a stand against religion if we are to embrace democratic values. Democracy is integral to socialism. The phrase "each to their own" here applies.

However, clearly organised religion is on the decline and therefore so is their influence over the state. A new religion is replacing it. They call it 'capitalism'. We should be more worried about that.
18th November 2007 @ 00:31
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Hey Lee. No I don't intend on burning churches, especially in Europe where they are such beautiful buildings, where I see no reason they shouldn't stand for hundreds or thousands of years to come.

Although there are many areas in the political sphere religion should be separated, in the UK I don't think any advances can be made here without us becoming a republic.

The battle with religion is very much at the cultural level, blind faith must be seen as unacceptable, and anything less than sound critical thinking should be frowned upon. As such it is very gradual erosion over time.

I'm happy to say such materialistic movements are becoming more prominent in the United States, atheists are however still the most un-trusted minority there, and little progress seems to be happening in the Middle East. Europe has been on the right track since the Second World War, but things have certainly slowed down, perhaps even reversed over the last decade or so in my opinion.

Children must be taught how to think, rules of evidence and logic, thought is very much the greatest weapon in such a struggle.
18th November 2007 @ 16:28
Comment from: Matthew [Visitor] · http://www.mattastro.com
All I can say is religion will never ever go away. Something seems to be implanted in all of our brains which makes humans want to know where we originated from and what 'life' is all about. This has created religion whether it be Christianity, Muslim, Atheist, Scientology you name it. We will always wander about it.. and yes always argue about it in the playground. Unfortunately, unlike children's playgrounds, an adults playground usually contains terrible wars or horrendus acts killing many people.

Matt
18th November 2007 @ 22:19
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Of course religion will go away. The thing implanted in some people's heads is culture.
19th November 2007 @ 00:13
Comment from: Matt [Visitor] · http://www.mattastro.com
Religion, Culture whatever chapter of the dictionary you want to put it under, it's still here to stay. I beg to differ on the belief that this wonder of what life is all about will simply... 'go away'. There's no escaping it, wether implanted or researched for yourself through your own scrutiny. We humans are aware of our own mortality and will always search for answers. That is the problem and that is why it will not go away.
19th November 2007 @ 16:43
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
The universe existed for billions of years without culture or religion. To say either will never go away is short sighted.
19th November 2007 @ 18:19
Comment from: Matt [Visitor] · http://www.mattastro.com
Erm... I think you mis-understood me there! The universe existed without religion I'm not desputing that! It's humans I'm talking about LOL. Joking apart...religion will go away at some point... maybe when humans are extinct IMO. Most people do accept that the universe is billions of years old (excluding the silly people that think the book of Genesis is anything but a poem and the 'created in 7 days story' should not be taken literally![roll eyes]). They also accept how stars/the solar system formed. The problem is the 'why and by what(if anything at all)' questions. If the big bang theory was enough of an explanation for all and it was just an amazing cut and dry explanation, then we would all live in peace and harmony.... problem is it's not enough of an explanation for most people. It's about time we had the ability to at least discover an exo-planet with some form of life. At least then people can be convinced that the Earth might not be unique in the universe.
Matt
20th November 2007 @ 09:34
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
I don't accept that religion has been with us forever, so I see no reason to expect it to be with us forever either. Monotheistic religions are only a few thousand years old; they emerged due to specific social conditions of the time.

I believe the concept of giant men in the sky moving things around is much older, and no doubt that idea provided the basis for a monotheistic god. However I don't accept that as being religious per-se, just the best reasoning people could come to at the time, when they didn't have time to ponder these things as they had to struggle to survive.

I would however say that science has one key advantage, it isn't just made up. As such reason (which I believe most people will agree over historical time periods is generally on the advance) will erode faith.

The human brain is fundamentally a reasoning device; it can generate ideas, but most importantly test them for validity. There's one key exception to this which effects everybody, the brain of a young children was selected to accept certain things as authority without testing them, typically things like don't go near the edge of the cliff, that provides the foot in the door for non-thought, it takes a lot of honesty to be willing later in life when the brain has developed to apply critical thought to what you have been indoctrinated into believing as a child.

People exist in a natural world, and I don't accept that they need un-natural creatures and the like to satisfy their curiosity, they just need the best scientific understanding of the day. Science shows our oneness with the cosmos.
20th November 2007 @ 14:32
Comment from: Matt [Visitor] · http://www.mattastro.com
Totally agree with religion not existing in the early development of man. Now however, we are irreversably much more intelligent and complicated beings with which both religion and science will always flourish until the next global disaster for our race. This very discussion (somewhat exhausted I might add) is testiment to that fact. Dont get me wrong, a world without religion sounds like a lot simpler place, but no scientific discovery is going completely stop speculation amongst certain groups of humanity. To put it bluntly, We're (humans) are a pain in the rear and cannot collectively agree on anything. One last thing... exactly what scientific evidence do you propose would end all religious beliefs ?
21st November 2007 @ 10:18
Comment from: Ron [Visitor]
For Matt: Providing evidence may not end all religious beliefs, but applying the scientific method in our reasoning process probably will metigate against harmful religious beliefs.

Incidentally, your conjecture, "...and cannot collectively agree on anything.",
may or may not be true. Have you applied the scientific method to it?
3rd December 2007 @ 16:45
Comment from: evolution...lol [Visitor]
even atheists have a religion. religion just means that there is something you believe in. they believe there is no God. ...oh, and by the way, keep in mind, not all religions are bad. our country and government was founded on religious beliefs and the BIble. look at the world now that the two have been separated. divorce is prevalent, abortions, etc. im not voicing my opinion on the subjects, im am just using them as examples. just a thought
25th February 2008 @ 22:16
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Atheism describes a lack of belief, and as such is not a religion, which is a belief in something.
25th February 2008 @ 22:40
Comment from: evolution...lol [Visitor]
actually, atheism DOES require belief. the belief that there is no God. i have a question though. where do they think the world came from? was it always there? i do have a friend who is an atheist AND an evolutionist. is every1?
26th February 2008 @ 20:52
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Lack of belief is not the same. There is an almost infinite number of things somebody does not believe exists. The lack of a belief in god, is the default position. Just as the lack of belief in ghosts, or the tooth fairy is the same. Honestly, you just don't get it do you?

The world condensed out of the solar nebula around 4.5 billion years ago.
26th February 2008 @ 21:05
Comment from: me [Visitor]
and that came from where?..or was it always there?...yes, i admit, i AM stubborn.
27th February 2008 @ 22:06
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
The solar nebula came from condensing material within the galaxy.
27th February 2008 @ 22:13
Comment from: Guy [Visitor]
*----
Christianity is pushing to make the world a better place. It's the people bent on accusing one religion for destruction and are so narrow minded to think anything else that is making this world worse then it needs to be.

Faith is not attacking anyone. So why must you say "faith must be attacked by reason"

You are the one that wants the destruction. The attacking.
2nd June 2008 @ 21:09
Comment from: Paul Smith [Member] · http://www.dasmirnov.net/
Sorry Guy, it needs to be attacked because "faith" is causing people to fly aircraft into skyscrapers.
2nd June 2008 @ 21:38
Comment from: Dean [Visitor]
***--
Im with you on this one.

I have read a bit of history (im 17, so my opinion may not be worth much), and in the past, religion has been used mostly as a controlling tool. Christianity gained power through the pope. the pope, apparently God's servant on Earth, Chose the Kings of the times and had the others killed, therefore, people began to see that if you served the Pope, and you converted other people to the religion, there was a chance that he may bestow power upon you. The Bible was a collection of stories that were used to convey, to the everyday peasant, the way to act and feel. it was all used to control large groups of people

Now you were saying that Faith is Peaceful... there is no such thing (unfortunately) when it comes to mankind. We will always fight, and always will. People dont like to be bound by a set of severely limiting rules, which religion is.

Guy, you need to have a quick look around as well as at a history book. People sharing the same faith kill each other daily, so i can not classify that as peaceful...
3rd June 2008 @ 12:47
Comment from: Guy [Visitor]
Dean, there is good and bad in every religion as well as every race.

We can not control maniacs that "say" they are a part of one religion but do not practice what is being taught. Obviously if someone that is Chritian is killing another human being, they are not obeying the Lord.

So when we are trying to make the world a better place, you can disagree with us all you want. You can twist words all you want but no religion that serves the one true Lord is trying to hurt or attack anyone.

3rd June 2008 @ 19:10
Comment from: Dean [Visitor]
Guy, you are right, there is good and bad in every religion, just as their is good and bad in all people.

What I'm saying though, is that religion is not the answer.

The crusades were the Catholic churches example of the conflict that religion caused. They were ordered by the Pope, apparently "God's Voice On Earth". By that logic, the crusades were cause by the Lord himself. To argue different would say that the Pope is NOT the voice of God.

I'm not saying that it is just Christianity either, other religions do the same, and few are truly peaceful.

But if you are after a peaceful religion, take up Buddhism. Follow its beliefs and leave the logical thinkers alone.
8th June 2008 @ 10:17

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